PANEL- January 08, 2009 Loop Space, Seoul-Korea
The performance was in Korean, but below is the English version.
This is not A
(Panel Discussion)Participants
Taeyoon: Artist. Korean. Age: 28. Educated in Korea and United States, Taeyoon has been living both in Seoul and New York City, as well as participating in biennials and exhibitions all around the world. In 2007 he got invited to participate in an exchange exhibition between Turkey and South Korea. Figuring out that the exhibition was made to promote the relationship between the two countries, Taeyoon decided to make a piece about the last alive Turkish soldier who had fought in the war in Korea in 1950.Taeyoon is skinny and wears black square glasses. He smokes about 30 cigarettes a day.
Jyeong: Gallerist. Korean. Age 32.Having completed her education in the United States, Jyeong is now working solely in Seoul. Jyeong works with 11 well-known artists, along with Taeyoon, most of whose work is considered at-the-edge. Currently she is running an alternative, not-for profit space called The Stream. Jyeong is very thin and dresses mostly in black.
Ji-Yeon: Curator. Korean. Age 33, Ji-Yeon is a Korean curator. She has been in the scene for more than 10 years and now works as an independent curator. Ji-Yeon is married and has one daughter, a seven-year old girl with chronic asthma. She likes to write poetry.
Art Historian, Dr. Seo: We don’t know Dr. Seo’s age. Works for a highly influential paper in Seoul under a fake name as well as writing reviews for several art magazines. His last book “Indirect Experience” has become a guide for numerous contemporary art collectors.
Isil: Isil is a Turkish artist living in Istanbul. She is one of the artists of this exhibition. As her piece for tonight, she decided to organize a panel discussion.
Isil is also 28 and she is a professional soccer player.
Setting: An interior room. On stage there is a table and four chairs. Among the panelists are Taeyoon, Ji-Yeon, and Dr. Seo. The discussion will be on Taeyoon’s recent show “This is not A”. The panel discussion will be recorded on camera. It will be moderated by Jyeong.
Dialogue
Jyeong: Hello and welcome everyone. I am Jyeong Kim. Tonight we will be talking about Taeyoon Choi’s recent exhibition at the museum of contemporary art, called “This is not A”. I believe most of you have seen the work.
We also have guest speakers with us, art historian Dr. Seo is here and also the curator of contemporary art Ji-Yeon Lyu is here.
Having said that, I’d like to start our conversation by asking Taeyoon first to talk about the process of this project. Taeyoon, can you talk about how it all started?
Taeyoon: (Coughs a few times). Sure. In 2007, I got invited for an exhibition in Istanbul. The aim of the exhibition was to promote cultural exchanges between the two countries. And when you say exchange it is such a broad concept… you know? So I started thinking about what has been exchanged so far in the mutual history of the two countries.
And of course, when you deal with history you realize that so much of it is made up of wars, victories and losses. I immediately knew I wanted to do something about Turkey’s participation in the Korean war, but I didn’t necessarily want to do something from archive materials. Instead, I wanted to deal with something more personal.
Through my research, I heard about a man who had been in the Korean war and who was still alive. But what was more interesting was not the fact that he had been in the war, it was actually more than that.
Jyeong: Yes, and maybe you can talk about that a bit. That is an essential part of the work.
Taeyoon: Well apparently this man had become one of the richest men in Turkey. After he came back from Korea, he had gone into TV business and slowly made his way into Turkish media as a producer. Then in 1992 he set up Turkey’s first private TV channel. Right now he owns four private TV channels in Turkey. But what is more interesting about him is that he never shows any war images on his TV. I mean he completely ignores any stories, images or news about the war, anything…. He never talks about it, nor allows any war news to be shown on his channels. This seemed extremely interesting and absurd to me, so instead of making a piece about the last war veteran, I interviewed him and made a video installation about a media boss who avoids any words about the war.
(Here Isil goes and whispers something in Taeyoon’s ear as if giving him directions. Taeyoon looks a bit surprised. The others also notice it but they continue reading.)
Jyeong: (directly to the audience) Yeah, I was very much interested in the piece when I saw it too. It is such a grotesque story. When Taeyoon told me about it, the first thing I thought was “why don’t we also exhibit the work here?” So I called the gallery in Istanbul and asked whether it would be possible to exhibit the work here as well. That’s how we brought the piece here.
Taeyoon: Yes, but there is also one other thing. We invited him to Korea as well.
Jyeong: How did he react to that?
Taeyoon: Well in the beginning he was very skeptical of course. But I made it clear that we wouldn’t talk anything about the war or anything that would trigger his memories. So he accepted and came to the exhibition opening. I think he really liked seeing himself on screen.
Jyeong: Did he talk to you about why he avoids any word about the war so systematically?
Taeyoon: Well, I think he doesn’t just want to identify himself with being a war veteran. He told me that if he tells people he is a war veteran, people will pity him and he doesn’t want that. So he is completely avoiding anything about the war.
Jyeong: But isn’t it absurd the way he does it? Like you are saying, that he never shows any war images on TV. He is not only blocking himself from the war but also other people.
Taeyoon: Yes, but he also thinks that those when images are constantly shown on TV, they will lose their meaning. So he avoids them completely.
Jyeong: Now let’s turn the microphone to Ji-Yeon, who curated the show here. What are your observations about the piece?
Ji-Yeon: First of all thanks for inviting me here. I am very glad to be part of this exhibition. As you all say the piece was very interesting.
Right now there is a tendency among many contemporary artists to make work about existing social problems or about the ongoing wars. I feel like it has almost become a trend. But I should also say that I find many of those works not ambitious at all.
But I think Taeyoon’s piece is different in that it talks about the existing history of the war between the two countries, but it doesn’t do it by directly talking about the war, rather he shows us through a man’s personal story. I think that is very important and more layered.
Dr. Seo: I have a question to Taeyoon if I may ask something.
Jyeong: Sure please go on.
Dr. Seo: Do you think of your piece as a documentary?
Taeyoon: Well, the piece has a documentary quality. But unlike a documentary maker, I am not interested the truth-value of what my subjects will tell, but rather what they won’t tell.
Isil: Cut! Ok. Cut everyone!
Taeyoon: What happened, did I say something wrong?
Isil: No, that was good. But I want you to read a bit louder. The opening has started, we have audience here and it is going to get louder. So can you please raise your voices?
Jaewon translates Isil in Korean.
Taeyoon: Ok.
Isil: Let’s take from Dr. Seo, and the line is: Do you think of your piece as a documentary?
Jaewon: translation in Korean.
Dr. Seo (to Taeyoon –in Korean): Do you think of your piece as a documentary?
Dr. Seo then turns to Isil (in English): I actually have something else to say.
Isil: Ok, what is it?
(Here Dr. Seo will start speaking English but then he will stop for a moment and suddenly he will break into Korean) Dr. Seo: I think instead of talking about whether it is a documentary or not…. I…최태윤씨 비디오 속의 스토리에 대하여 이야기해야 할 것 같습니다. 만약 전쟁에 대한 뉴스가 하나도 안 나온다면 무슨일이 벌어질까요? 없다면 해 봅시다
Isil: What did he say?
Jaewon: He says we should discuss about the story in Taeyoon’s video. It is a very interesting story. What would happen if there were no news about the war?Isil: Really? You’d rather discuss that instead of the script here?
Jeowon translates.
(They all nod at Isil.)
Isil (to Dr. Seo): Ok, then why don’t you start since you initiated this idea? Let’s hear what you will say. Jaewon translates.
Dr. Seo (in Korean): I think the story itself is more interesting than our discussion here. It is crazy to imagine a man who owns a TV channel and never shows anything about the wars.
Ji- Yeon: But art does that too. Sometimes you can talk about something without ever mentioning it.
Dr. Seo: How so?
Ji-Yeon: Because you can use a more abstract language rather than being so direct about everything.
Dr. Seo: But then, don’t you ignore the real point you want to make and just play with metaphors? The whole thing becomes a signifier without the signified.
Ji-Yeon: But perhaps that is not so bad. Then you can leave some space to your audience.
Jyeong: But how can signs only translate a reality?
Ji-Yeon: I guess it depends on who is seeing whose reality. If it has nothing to do with me, any sign will do the same. They will remain empty.
Dr. Seo: So are you saying it is impossible to communicate something without experiencing it?
Ji-Yeon: Not that simple, but I am saying that signs are subjective and it is not the artwork that gives them their meaning, it is the context they are presented in.
Isil: Cuuuuut. Everyone can you stop for a moment. ThIS IS NOT IN THE SCRIPT. I have no idea about what you are saying. Can we please go back to the script? We were going to start with Jyeong. I completely lost where we are.
Jaewon translates Isil’s words.
Isil: Jyeong! I am reading your line. “I think we are about to reach to the end of our time.
Dr. Seo: No it is my turn.
Isil: Really? Ok, you are right. Go ahead. War is something we don’t want to live…
Dr. Seo (in Korean): War is something that we do not want to live through, we all know that. And maybe Taeyoon is right, when we constantly see it on TV it doesn’t affect us at all. But an exhibition space is different that TV too.
So what does it mean when an artist takes upon such an issue and presents it in an exhibition context? That is an important question. And when you bring this man here and take him to the land where they he once fought, then aren’t you forcing him to remember something quite traumatic? Perhaps it is something he doesn’t want to go through again.
Taeyoon: (Looks at Isil) I actually have something to say here.
Isil: Cut! What happened?
Taeyoon: I think there is an obsession or curiosity about people who have lived through trauma. But what is equally important is how to present that. The artist has a huge responsibility here; that is how to present other people’s trauma without victimizing them.
Jyeong: Actually Susan Sontag wrote about it in her book. It is called “Regarding The Pain of Others.”
Isil: You know I was really thinking about that book too.
But, ok. Can we go on from now on? Let’s try to focus and take it from here, ok? And let’s be serious.
Everyone moves from their chairs a bit. They take their position.
Isil: Ok. We are starting with Jyeong. Your line is: I think we are about to reach to the end of our time. Ok. Ready? Action.Jyeong:I think we are about to reach to the end of our time, so I would like to give the microphone to Taeyoon again.
Taeyoon: Well I have one other thing to say. This project has another thing to do with me more personally. Actually my grandfather fought in the war. He didn’t die but lost many of his friends. When I was a kid I grew up listening to his memories from those times…
(Taeyoon starts slowing down while reading the script and suddenly he stops. He tells Isil that he doesn’t want to do the performance. Isil gets furious. He and Isil have an argument and Taeyoon ends up leaving the space. He goes to the back and turns all the lights off.) Isil decides to replace Taeyoon with Jaewon. She turns all the lights back on.
Isil (to Jaewon) : Ok, now let’s continue with you. Ready? 1-2-3 action!
(Jaewon starts from where Taeyoon left. He tells the story of his grandfather with a serious face. But suddenly he bursts into tears.)
Isil: Cuuuut! No no no, this is too dramatic.
Why don’t we just pass that part and finish with your final?
Jaewon (in English): That was my final.
Isil: Well then Jyeong. Can you wrap it up?
Jyeong: Oh, Ok.
Isil: Ok. Ready? 1-2-3. Action.
Jyeong: Well I’d like to thank everyone for joining us today. Mr. Choi, Ms. Lee and Dr. Seo. I encourage you to take a look at the work and enjoy your evening. Good night.
